I agree that the lack of a revolutionary Zelaya program argues against the coup.
In my view, there is no justification for the coup.

I also accepted the statements of the cardinal, but I did not say anything to
justify what may have motivated them. In fact, I questioned the motivation by
pointing out that they were tepid and long overdue. I normally do not criticize
my pastors, but in light of the fact that the statement did not rely on
Scripture or make any doctrinal pronouncements, I consider them only a political
statement aligned with Honduran officialdom intended to maintain order, and will
feel free to make a few additional points (tellingly, Archbishop Escobar said
"no comment" when asked what he thought about the statement). I thought that
the bishops' statement lacked balance, in that it highlighted the (in my view,
trumped up) charges against Zelaya, but did not denounce the rupture of
constitutional order perpetrated by the golpistas, especially the reading of the
falsified Zelaya resignation letter before the Congress.

At the same time, I see plenty of neglect and overlooking the obvious on the
other side, too. Clearly, Chavez' chest pounding statements are reprehensible,
and does anyone else see that flying in Zelaya on a Venezuelan plane just sends
the wrong signal in this charged atmosphere. We need cool heads to prevail,
especially today.

Carlos


--- En sanromero@..., David Watson <dwatson@...> escribió:
>
> Well Carlos there are a couple of misconseptions also in your reply. Firstly I
was not accusing you of bending over backwards to justify the coup, but to
justify the actions of the Cadenal and the catholic hierarchy.
>
> Secondly, in reference to your statement that Zelaya had not presented a
comprehensive wealth distribution program, this would seem to reinforce the
argument against the the coup makers. If the changes were so little (raising the
minimum wage and earmarking $400 million to poverty reducing projects) and the
Honduran business elite reacted so drasticaly to prevent them, then what hope
would more thougroughgoing reforms have of sucsess if we accept this abuse of
democratic principles and set a presedence for similar sutuations in the future?
>
> Dave
>
> > From: Carlos [CXColorado@...]
> > Sent: 2009-07-05 18:57:26 CEST
> > To: sanromero@...
> > Subject: Re: SV: SV: [sanromero] Cardenal pide evitar "acción precipitada,"
regreso de Zelaya
> >
> > Dear Mr. Watson,
> >
> > I am sure you are right and I am wrong many things, including possibly about
glistening pearls and the bellies of swine, etc. But I am pretty sure that I am
right, and don't apologize for, my belief that something better awaits everyone
in Heaven. Yet, as Archbishop Romero often preached, that is a stimulus, and
not a disincentive, for wanting to make a better world right here.
> >
> > I do not mean to "bend over backwards to avoid condemnation of the most
condemnable actions." I condemn the coup d'etat, and I make no bones about it:
I recognize that it is nothing more than a naked and deplorable power grab by
the elites of Honduras. But, in all due respect, you seem to miss one point.
There was not a comprehensive wealth distribution scheme on the table by Zelaya.
Therefore, this cannot set a precedent for stymying real change in Latin
America. To paint this in simply in terms of class analysis will lead to
conclusions that are simply not supported and not relevant.
> >
> > The poor of Honduras, the second poorest country in Central America, do not
need another belowing contest among the country's strongmen: they need steady
structural progress, away from corruption and polarization, towards stability
and solidarity and I am simply asking: how is the posturing and vying from both
sides getting us closer to that?
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Carlos
> >
> > --- En sanromero@..., David Watson <dwatson@> escribió:
> > >
> > > Ah, what a wonderful world you live in Carlos, where everyone has good
intentions and it?s just a case of interpreting their words in a benevolent way
to find glistening pearls in the bellies of the most reprehensible swine. You
bend over backwards to avoid condemnation of the most condemnable actions, it is
an extraordianry feat of moral gymnastics.
> > >
> > > What alas you fail to do is analize these situations from a class
perspective. This is not a case of the goodies and the badies, or everyone
desserving a portion of the blame, it is not a school playground, it?s the real
world where the interests of the economic elite must not be threatened by
daintities like democratic process. You threaten the status quo, you challenge
the economic and political interests of the elite, then sod democracy! You?re
out!!
> > > Iran and Guatemala in 1953, Dominican Republic in 1965, Chile in 1973,
Venezuela in 2002 and Honduras today.
> > >
> > > So Cardinal Maradiaga and yourself will have a compromise, where the
status quo ante is established, peace returns to Honduras and a powerfull
message is sent out the the people; Here is the line that must not be crossed!
Democracy will only be tolerated when it is servile to our interests. You will
in other words establish a pesedence for all future attemts to implement change
for the benefit of the poor.
> > >
> > > So if Mauricio Funes dares to take steps to really redistribute the wealth
in El Salvador, ARENA, together with the right wing majority in the Legislative
assembly and their handpicked Supreme court judges can find some obscure
paragraphs in the constitution, scream foul, and return to business as usual.
> > >
> > > Archbishop José Luís Escobar Alas and probably yourself can call for
moderation and the status quo ante will return peacefully, the elite can
maintain their overindulgent lifestyles and the poor can wallow in their
subhuman, merciless poverty.
> > >
> > > No doubt you?d say there is someting better waiting for them in Heaven!!!!
> > > Dave
> > > http://dave-motherofallbloggs.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: Carlos [CXColorado@]
> > > > Sent: 2009-07-05 00:27:57 CEST
> > > > To: sanromero@...
> > > > Subject: Re: SV: [sanromero] Cardenal pide evitar "acción precipitada,"
regreso de Zelaya
> > > >
> > > > I saw an interview on Salvadoran TV with Beatrice Carrillo, the former
human rights onbudsman, and what she said made a lot of sense to me. It was
along the lines of a parallel critique of both the golpistas and the Zelaya
followers, and an admonition that they are both driving a hard line toward an
irreconcilable confrontation. What the Cardinal says is along the same lines:
Zelaya's return is unlikely to lead to a unanymous reinstatement of the status
quo ante (and even that would only have Honduras mired in an intractable
confrontation), while the proximity of elections does give Honduras a chance to
hit the reset button on this crisis, in which both sides took part in
blameworthy conduct. I thought that the Cardinal's criticism that the
international community was a latecomer to the crisis rang hollow in light of
the fact that this is the Church's first statement, and a pretty tepid one also.
What we have is a constitutional crisis, an old fashioned crisis, with two
pretenders to the throne, both claiming the color of law, and the question is,
how are we going to resolve it. IMHO, that's what I think we should be driving
for -- peacefully, responsibly -- and not trying to add fuel to the fire.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- En sanromero@..., David Watson <dwatson@> escribió:
> > > > >
> > > > > I saw a youth in a news bulletin with a picture of Archbishop Oscar
Romero on his T-shirt being beaten with battons by Honduran police. His crime;
wanting the return of his lawfully elected president, Mel Zelaya. Cardenal Óscar
Rodríguez Maradiaga, does not want the return of democracy in Honduras, and
clouds his decietful intentions with honorable concern for the possible loss of
life if Zelaya returns.
> > > > >
> > > > > He demands of the international community that they allow Hondurans to
decide their own destiny! Wasn?t that exactly what the youth with the Romero
T-shirt was doing when he was so mercilessly beaten? Shame on you Maradiaga,
shame on the Catholic hierarchy.
> > > > >
> > > > > Long live the Honduran peoples struggle for justice and democracy!
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave Watson
> > > > > http://dave-motherofallbloggs.blogspot.com/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: orientaci0n [orientaci0n@]
> > > > > > Sent: 2009-07-04 22:01:57 CEST
> > > > > > To: sanromero@...
> > > > > > Subject: [sanromero] Cardenal pide evitar "acción precipitada,"
regreso de Zelaya
> > > > > >
> > > > > > CARDENAL MARADIAGA PIDE A MANUEL ZELAYA NO REGRESAR A HONDURAS: El
prelado se une a varios sectores hondureños que exigen a la comunidad
internacional respetar la autodeterminación de los hondureños. En Washington,
Estados Unidos, la OEA determina el futuro de Honduras en el seno de su
organización.
> > > > > >
http://www.elfaro.net/secciones/Noticias/20090629/noticias20_20090629.asp
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Carlos Dada
> > > > > > Desde Tegucigalpa, Honduras
> > > > > >
> > > > > > El cardenal hondureño Óscar Rodríguez Maradiaga advirtió este sábado
por la mañana que si el depuesto presidente Manuel Zelaya regresa a Honduras
podría desatar un baño de sangre, y lo llamó a permanecer en el extranjero.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Pensemos si una acción precipitada, un regreso al país en este
momento, podría desatar un baño de sangre. Sé que usted ama la vida, que usted
respeta la vida. Hasta el día de hoy no ha muerto ni un solo hondureño. Por
favor medite porque después sería demasiado tarde", dijo el cardenal, apelando
al presidente Zelaya, en un comunicado emitido por cadena nacional.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zelaya, quien fue raptado por un grupo de militares el 28 de junio y
trasladado en un avión a Costa Rica, anunció que volverá a Honduras mañana
domingo, acompañado de sus homólogos de Ecuador y Argentina, para recuperar el
poder, aunque las condiciones no le son favorables.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ayer el Secretario General de la OEA, José Miguel Insulza, adelantó
que se reuniría con el depuesto presidente para que él tome la decisión de
volver, pero evitó referirse a la posibilidad de que él mismo lo acompañe.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > En esta ciudad, hoy algunos medios de comunicación hacían eco de los
rumores del inminente retorno de Zelaya, y del incremento de militares y
policías en todos los aeropuertos del país. Pero no hay ningún indicio de que
esto haya sucedido.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tras la visita de Insulza, y el anuncio de Honduras de su retiro de
la Organización, el cardenal Maradiaga hizo un vehemente reclamo a la comunidad
internacional, y particularmente a la OEA, a "que preste atención a todo lo que
venía ocurriendo, fuera de la legalidad en Honduras, y no solamente lo sucedido
a partir del 28 de junio pasado. También el pueblo hondureño se pregunta: ¿Por
qué no han condenado las amenazas bélicas contra nuestro país? Si el Sistema
Interamericano se limita a proteger la democracia en nuestras urnas pero no le
da seguimiento a un buen gobierno, a prevención de las crisis políticas,
económicas y sociales, de nada servirá reaccionar tardíamente frente a ellas".
Maradiaga aprovechó para reiterar a la comunidad internacional el derecho de los
hondureños a decidir su propio destino.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sus declaraciones representan un nuevo desafío para la OEA, que esta
tarde celebra su Asamblea General y recibe el informe del Secretario Insulza,
que ya adelantó que a partir de hoy Honduras será suspendida de esa
organización.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>