---

To: neurociencias@...
From: franzcalvo@...
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 04:10:04 +0000
Subject: [neurociencias] Re: Donde esta el error?: "white matter in parietal cortex"

Tal como la Dra. Angela y el colega Johann respondieron, el error
esta en la frase:

"white matter in parietal cortex"

He aqui el pasaje relevante de Junqueira:

"Gray matter is prevalent at the surface of the cerebrum and
cerebellum, forming the cerebral and cerebellar cortex, whereas white
matter is present in more central regions."
http://www.accessmedicine.com/content.aspx?aID=713559
Basic Histology: Text and Atlas
11th Edition. 2005
Luiz Carlos Junqueira, José Carneiro

Cordialmente,

Franz

--- En neurociencias@gruposyahoo.com, "Franz Calvo" <franzcalvo@...>
escribió:
>
> Encontre un bochornoso error anatomico en el siguiente abstract
> PubMed. Pueden hallarlo?
>
> (envio este mensaje como un entretenimiento neuroanatomico)
>
>
> White matter alterations in schizophrenic patients with pronounced
> negative symptomatology and with positive family history for
> schizophrenia.
>
> Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2008 Apr 24
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18437282
>
> Zetzsche T, Preuss UW, Frodl T, Leinsinger G, Born C, Reiser M,
> Hegerl U, Möller HJ, Meisenzahl EM.
>
> Department of Psychiatry, Ludwig-Maximilians University,
Nussbaumstr.
> 7, 80336, Munich, Germany.
>
> BACKGROUND: In recent years, in vivo and post-mortem studies
detected
> structural brain changes in schizophrenia. The aim of our analysis
> was to investigate potential changes of white matter in
schizophrenic
> patients compared to controls, and the relationship to clinical
> characteristics.
>
> METHODS: Fifty male, right-handed schizophrenic patients who met
DSM-
> IV criteria for schizophrenia were recruited. Fifty right-handed,
age-
> and sex-matched subjects without a psychiatric disorder were
> enrolled as controls. Volumes of white matter in several brain
> regions were measured by 1.5 T MRI using a volumetry and
segmentation
> software (BRAINS). Regions of interest including frontal, temporal,
> parietal, occipital and subcortical areas were determined using
> Talairach spaces.
>
> RESULTS: No significant differences in white matter volumes of
total
> brain tissue and regions of interest were detected between patients
> and controls. A significant reduction of white matter in parietal
> cortex of right hemisphere was found in a subgroup of patients with
> pronounced negative symptoms. Furthermore, patients with first-
grade
> relatives suffering from schizophrenia showed a reduction of
> subcortical white matter in the right hemisphere.
>
> CONCLUSIONS: Our results indicate that subgroups of schizophrenic
> patients show alterations of white matter in distinct brain
regions,
> including the right parietal lobe.
>

Tal como la Dra. Angela y el colega Johann respondieron, el error
esta en la frase:

"white matter in parietal cortex"

He aqui el pasaje relevante de Junqueira:

"Gray matter is prevalent at the surface of the cerebrum and
cerebellum, forming the cerebral and cerebellar cortex, whereas white
matter is present in more central regions."
http://www.accessmedicine.com/content.aspx?aID=713559
Basic Histology: Text and Atlas
11th Edition. 2005
Luiz Carlos Junqueira, José Carneiro

Cordialmente,

Franz



--- En neurociencias@..., "Franz Calvo" <franzcalvo@...>
escribió:
>
> Encontre un bochornoso error anatomico en el siguiente abstract
> PubMed. Pueden hallarlo?
>
> (envio este mensaje como un entretenimiento neuroanatomico)
>
>
> White matter alterations in schizophrenic patients with pronounced
> negative symptomatology and with positive family history for
> schizophrenia.
>
> Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2008 Apr 24
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18437282
>
> Zetzsche T, Preuss UW, Frodl T, Leinsinger G, Born C, Reiser M,
> Hegerl U, Möller HJ, Meisenzahl EM.
>
> Department of Psychiatry, Ludwig-Maximilians University,
Nussbaumstr.
> 7, 80336, Munich, Germany.
>
> BACKGROUND: In recent years, in vivo and post-mortem studies
detected
> structural brain changes in schizophrenia. The aim of our analysis
> was to investigate potential changes of white matter in
schizophrenic
> patients compared to controls, and the relationship to clinical
> characteristics.
>
> METHODS: Fifty male, right-handed schizophrenic patients who met
DSM-
> IV criteria for schizophrenia were recruited. Fifty right-handed,
age-
>  and sex-matched subjects without a psychiatric disorder were
> enrolled as controls. Volumes of white matter in several brain
> regions were measured by 1.5 T MRI using a volumetry and
segmentation
> software (BRAINS). Regions of interest including frontal, temporal,
> parietal, occipital and subcortical areas were determined using
> Talairach spaces.
>
> RESULTS: No significant differences in white matter volumes of
total
> brain tissue and regions of interest were detected between patients
> and controls. A significant reduction of white matter in parietal
> cortex of right hemisphere was found in a subgroup of patients with
> pronounced negative symptoms. Furthermore, patients with first-
grade
> relatives suffering from schizophrenia showed a reduction of
> subcortical white matter in the right hemisphere.
>
> CONCLUSIONS: Our results indicate that subgroups of schizophrenic
> patients show alterations of white matter in distinct brain
regions,
> including the right parietal lobe.
>

---

To: neurociencias@...
From: johannvega@...
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:46:11 -0700
Subject: Re: [neurociencias] Donde esta el error?

Quizás el error está en que la corteza cerebral es sustancia gris. "A significant reduction of white matter in parietal cortex of right hemisphere was found in a subgroup of patients with pronounced negative symptoms." Saludos, Johann Vega   --- El mié 30-abr-08, Franz Calvo <franzcalvo@hotmail.com> escribió: De: Franz Calvo <franzcalvo@hotmail.com> Asunto: [neurociencias] Donde esta el error? A: neurociencias@gruposyahoo.com Fecha: miércoles, 30 abril, 2008, 12:08 am Encontre un bochornoso error anatomico en el siguiente abstract PubMed. Pueden hallarlo? (envio este mensaje como un entretenimiento neuroanatomico) White matter alterations in schizophrenic patients with pronounced negative symptomatology and with positive family history for schizophrenia. Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2008 Apr 24 http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ pubmed/18437282 Zetzsche T, Preuss UW, Frodl T, Leinsinger G, Born C, Reiser M, Hegerl U, Möller HJ, Meisenzahl EM. Department of Psychiatry, Ludwig-Maximilians University, Nussbaumstr. 7, 80336, Munich, Germany. BACKGROUND: In recent years, in vivo and post-mortem studies detected structural brain changes in schizophrenia. The aim of our analysis was to investigate potential changes of white matter in schizophrenic patients compared to controls, and the relationship to clinical characteristics. METHODS: Fifty male, right-handed schizophrenic patients who met DSM- IV criteria for schizophrenia were recruited. Fifty right-handed, age- and sex-matched subjects without a psychiatric disorder were enrolled as controls. Volumes of white matter in several brain regions were measured by 1.5 T MRI using a volumetry and segmentation software (BRAINS). Regions of interest including frontal, temporal, parietal, occipital and subcortical areas were determined using Talairach spaces. RESULTS: No significant differences in white matter volumes of total brain tissue and regions of interest were detected between patients and controls. A significant reduction of white matter in parietal cortex of right hemisphere was found in a subgroup of patients with pronounced negative symptoms. Furthermore, patients with first-grade relatives suffering from schizophrenia showed a reduction of subcortical white matter in the right hemisphere. CONCLUSIONS: Our results indicate that subgroups of schizophrenic patients show alterations of white matter in distinct brain regions, including the right parietal lobe.

---

Yahoo! Deportes Beta
¡No te pierdas lo último sobre el torneo clausura 2008!
Entérate aquí http://deportes.yahoo.com

Quizás el error está en que la corteza cerebral es sustancia gris. "A significant reduction of white matter in parietal cortex of right hemisphere was found in a subgroup of patients with pronounced negative symptoms." Saludos, Johann Vega   --- El mié 30-abr-08, Franz Calvo <franzcalvo@hotmail.com> escribió: De: Franz Calvo <franzcalvo@hotmail.com> Asunto: [neurociencias] Donde esta el error? A: neurociencias@gruposyahoo.com Fecha: miércoles, 30 abril, 2008, 12:08 am Encontre un bochornoso error anatomico en el siguiente abstract PubMed. Pueden hallarlo? (envio este mensaje como un entretenimiento neuroanatomico) White matter alterations in schizophrenic patients with pronounced negative symptomatology and with positive family history for schizophrenia. Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2008 Apr 24 http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ pubmed/18437282 Zetzsche T, Preuss UW, Frodl T, Leinsinger G, Born C, Reiser M, Hegerl U, Möller HJ, Meisenzahl EM. Department of Psychiatry, Ludwig-Maximilians University, Nussbaumstr. 7, 80336, Munich, Germany. BACKGROUND: In recent years, in vivo and post-mortem studies detected structural brain changes in schizophrenia. The aim of our analysis was to investigate potential changes of white matter in schizophrenic patients compared to controls, and the relationship to clinical characteristics. METHODS: Fifty male, right-handed schizophrenic patients who met DSM- IV criteria for schizophrenia were recruited. Fifty right-handed, age- and sex-matched subjects without a psychiatric disorder were enrolled as controls. Volumes of white matter in several brain regions were measured by 1.5 T MRI using a volumetry and segmentation software (BRAINS). Regions of interest including frontal, temporal, parietal, occipital and subcortical areas were determined using Talairach spaces. RESULTS: No significant differences in white matter volumes of total brain tissue and regions of interest were detected between patients and controls. A significant reduction of white matter in parietal cortex of right hemisphere was found in a subgroup of patients with pronounced negative symptoms. Furthermore, patients with first-grade relatives suffering from schizophrenia showed a reduction of subcortical white matter in the right hemisphere. CONCLUSIONS: Our results indicate that subgroups of schizophrenic patients show alterations of white matter in distinct brain regions, including the right parietal lobe.

---

Yahoo! Deportes Beta
¡No te pierdas lo último sobre el torneo clausura 2008!
Entérate aquí http://deportes.yahoo.com

Desearía tener la referencia explícita del artículo sobre \"las decisiones se
adoptarían a nivel inconsciente\" para poder acceder al mismo, leerlo y
comentarlo.

Saludos,

Alex.

__________________________________________________________
Si desea recibir, semanalmente, el Boletín Electrónico de la PUCP, ingrese a:
http://agora.pucp.edu.pe/InsBoletin

Respondo por segunda vez y pido perdón por si me repito pero es que
no encuentro el email anterior que envié. Para mí el error es que se
hable de estudiar la materia blanca. Los nucleos son de materia
gris. No sé si es esto o si falta algo. Me lo he mirado por encima y
luego he estado buscando mi mensaje desaparecido. Buenos días.

--- En neurociencias@..., "Franz Calvo" <franzcalvo@...>
escribió:
>
> Encontre un bochornoso error anatomico en el siguiente abstract
> PubMed. Pueden hallarlo?
>
> (envio este mensaje como un entretenimiento neuroanatomico)
>
>
> White matter alterations in schizophrenic patients with pronounced
> negative symptomatology and with positive family history for
> schizophrenia.
>
> Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2008 Apr 24
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18437282
>
> Zetzsche T, Preuss UW, Frodl T, Leinsinger G, Born C, Reiser M,
> Hegerl U, Möller HJ, Meisenzahl EM.
>
> Department of Psychiatry, Ludwig-Maximilians University,
Nussbaumstr.
> 7, 80336, Munich, Germany.
>
> BACKGROUND: In recent years, in vivo and post-mortem studies
detected
> structural brain changes in schizophrenia. The aim of our analysis
> was to investigate potential changes of white matter in
schizophrenic
> patients compared to controls, and the relationship to clinical
> characteristics.
>
> METHODS: Fifty male, right-handed schizophrenic patients who met
DSM-
> IV criteria for schizophrenia were recruited. Fifty right-handed,
age-
>  and sex-matched subjects without a psychiatric disorder were
> enrolled as controls. Volumes of white matter in several brain
> regions were measured by 1.5 T MRI using a volumetry and
segmentation
> software (BRAINS). Regions of interest including frontal,
temporal,
> parietal, occipital and subcortical areas were determined using
> Talairach spaces.
>
> RESULTS: No significant differences in white matter volumes of
total
> brain tissue and regions of interest were detected between
patients
> and controls. A significant reduction of white matter in parietal
> cortex of right hemisphere was found in a subgroup of patients
with
> pronounced negative symptoms. Furthermore, patients with first-
grade
> relatives suffering from schizophrenia showed a reduction of
> subcortical white matter in the right hemisphere.
>
> CONCLUSIONS: Our results indicate that subgroups of schizophrenic
> patients show alterations of white matter in distinct brain
regions,
> including the right parietal lobe.
>

Estimados miembros de la lista,

El artículo original está disponible en:

http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v11/n5/abs/nn.2112.html

Con el propósito de aclarar los conceptos y términos que sustentan el trabajo
debo hacer presente que \"nivel inconsciente\" en este artículo no tiene nada
que ver con sus homónimos pertenecientes a diversas tradiciones
psicoanalíticas.

Saludos,

Alex.


------ Mensaje original -------
De : w211165@...
Para : neurociencias@...
Fecha : Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:11:34 -0700 (PDT)
Asunto : [neurociencias] Las decisiones se adoptarían a nivel inconsciente
>http://www.tendencias21.net/Las-decisiones-se-adoptarian-a-nivel-
inconsciente_a2216.html?preaction=nl&id=1973871&idnl=34401     Las decisiones
se adoptarían a nivel inconsciente      Un estudio descubre que se producen 10
segundos antes de que lleguen a la conciencia     El libre albedrío podría
originarse en una actividad inconsciente del cerebro que se produce hasta 10
segundos antes de que hagamos conscientes nuestras propias decisiones, señala
un estudio. Un grupo de voluntarios se sometió a una prueba en la que se
debían hacer elecciones sencillas, mientras sus cerebros fueron escaneados con
la tecnología fMRI. Los resultados demostraron que, antes de que nos demos
cuenta o siquiera pensemos en lo que queremos hacer, nuestro cerebro comienza
a discurrir. Las decisiones, por tanto, parecen llegar del inconsciente y no
del consciente. Esta cuestión plantea la necesidad de revisar el concepto del
libre albedrío. Por Yaiza Martínez.
>
>
>  Tradicionalmente se ha tratado el tema del “libre albedrío” desde el punto
de vista filosófico. El libre albedrío sería el poder humano para elegir y
tomar nuestras propias decisiones. De esta definición se deduce que el término
estaría relacionado con nuestra mente conciente, es decir, que conscientemente
es como elegimos lo que deseamos o no deseamos hacer.
>  Pero esto último tal vez no sea del todo cierto, al menos si se tiene en
cuenta una reciente investigación llevada a cabo por neurocientíficos del
Centro Bernstein de Neurociencia Computacional de Berlín, en Alemania, cuyos
resultados se han dado a conocer en la revista Nature Neuroscience. En esta
investigación se escanearon los cerebros de 14 individuos mientras éstos
tomaban una decisión sencilla (presionar un botón u otro en una tarea
informática).
>
>  Libertad según la neurociencia
>  Así, los científicos, liderados por el neurólogo John-Dylan Haynes,
localizaron con total precisión señales concretas de actividad cerebral hasta
10 segundos antes de que los participantes se dieran cuenta de su propia
elección.
>  Según señaló Haynes a la revista NewSientist, el presente estudio ha
demostrado que “nuestras decisiones están predeterminadas inconscientemente
mucho tiempo antes de que nuestra propia conciencia las ponga en marcha”.
>  En Nature Neuroscience, los autores del estudio explican, además, que esta
actividad cerebral pre-decisión consciente puede ser decodificada en la
corteza prefrontal (relacionada con procesos emocionales e intelectuales) y la
corteza parietal (relacionada con el tacto y las partes del cuerpo) del
cerebro.
>  El desfase temporal entre el procesamiento inconsciente de nuestras
decisiones y la toma de conciencia sobre lo que vamos a hacer finalmente
reflejaría, según los científicos, el funcionamiento de una red de áreas de
control de alto nivel en el cerebro. Esta red se empezaría a preparar para la
decisión final mucho antes de que ésta llegue a nuestra conciencia.
>
>  Experimento con fMRI
>  Para las exploraciones realizadas por Hayne y su equipo se utilizó una
técnica muy avanzada conocida como exploración de resonancia magnética
funcional (fMRI), un procedimiento relativamente nuevo que utiliza imágenes de
resonancia magnética para medir los pequeños cambios metabólicos de cualquier
parte activa del cerebro.
>  A los 14 voluntarios que participaron en la prueba se les colocó un escáner
cerebral mientras realizaban su tarea, que consistía en apretar un botón con
un dedo de la mano derecha o de la izquierda tantas veces como quisieran.
>  Mientras cada uno de los participantes esperaba para hacer su elección, en
una pantalla aparecía, de manera intermitente, una letra aleatoria, cada medio
segundo. Cada vez que presionaban un botón, los voluntarios debían indicar qué
letra había salido en la pantalla en el momento de decidirse.
>  Los análisis posteriores de los escáneres fMRI demostraron que había
existido actividad en la corteza del cerebro segundos antes de que los
individuos presionaran el botón.
>  Desde los años 80
>  Esta no es la primera vez que los científicos ponen en duda el libre
albedrío consciente. En 1983, un neurocientífico norteamericano ya fallecido
llamado Benjamin Libet publicaba en la revista de neurología Brain un trabajo
acerca de la iniciación inconsciente de un acto voluntario.
>  Según este trabajo de Libet, las decisiones tomadas por cualquier sujeto
son, en primer lugar, llevadas a cabo en el inconsciente y, posteriormente,
trasladadas al conciente. Para Libet, la creencia del sujeto en que su
decisión depende de su voluntad es debida sólo a la visión retrospectiva del
proceso.
>  El experimento de Libet consistió entonces en pedir a un grupo de
voluntarios que efectuasen, cuando lo quisieran, un movimiento simple, como la
flexión de una muñeca. Los participantes debían comunicar a los científicos el
momento de aparición en su conciencia de la intención de hacer dicho
movimiento y el instante de comienzo de la sensación de movimiento.
>  Al mismo tiempo, los científicos registraron la actividad eléctrica de las
áreas motoras del cerebro, descubriendo así que el cerebro, sin esperar a la
decisión consciente del sujeto de mover su mano, se ponía en marcha para
llevar a cabo su plan. Por tanto, los resultados indicaron que el acto
voluntario comienza en el cerebro de manera inconsciente, antes que la
intención final llegue a la conciencia.
>
>  Proceso conjunto
>  Según Haynes, “parece como si el cerebro tomase las decisiones antes que la
persona en sí”. El científico añade que el experimento, de cualquier forma, se
ha centrado en las decisiones cotidianas típicas, que llevamos a cabo a lo
largo del día (como: me voy a tomar un zumo de naranja o me lo tomo de
manzana…).
>  En estos casos, parece que el deseo consciente y el inconsciente se ponen
de acuerdo o van “al unísono”, conformando entre ambos un solo proceso,
explica el científico.
>  Poder decodificar las decisiones inconscientes antes de que éstas lleguen a
la conciencia tendría importantes consecuencias para el desarrollo de
tecnologías que conozcan y descifren nuestros deseos, y puedan anticiparse a
ellos.
>  Desde otro punto de vista, la neurología se ocupa también de otros
desórdenes del libre albedrío, como son los desórdenes obsesivo-compulsivos
(en los que se siente la necesidad de hacer algo en contra de la propia
voluntad) u otros síndromes que imponen movimientos involuntarios a los
enfermos.
>  Todos estos estudios hacen pensar dónde se encuentra en realidad la
voluntad humana y si, realmente, depende sólo de nuestra conciencia o, por el
contrario, está sujeta a muchas otras variables, entre ellas, los niveles más
profundos y desconocidos de nuestro cerebro.
>
>  Viernes 25 Abril 2008
>  Yaiza Martínez
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it
now.


 ___________________________________________________________________
Si desea recibir, semanalmente, el Boletín Electrónico de la PUCP, ingrese a:
http://agora.pucp.edu.pe/InsBoletin

Desearía tener la referencia explícita del artículo sobre \"las decisiones se
adoptarían a nivel inconsciente\" para poder acceder al mismo, leerlo y
comentarlo.

Saludos,

Alex.


 ___________________________________________________________________
Si desea recibir, semanalmente, el Boletín Electrónico de la PUCP, ingrese a:
http://agora.pucp.edu.pe/InsBoletin

http://www.tendencias21.net/Las-decisiones-se-adoptarian-a-nivel-inconsciente_a2216.html?preaction=nl&id=1973871&idnl=34401

Las decisiones se adoptarían a nivel inconsciente

Un estudio descubre que se producen 10 segundos antes de que lleguen a la conciencia

El libre albedrío podría originarse en una actividad inconsciente del cerebro que se produce hasta 10 segundos antes de que hagamos conscientes nuestras propias decisiones, señala un estudio. Un grupo de voluntarios se sometió a una prueba en la que se debían hacer elecciones sencillas, mientras sus cerebros fueron escaneados con la tecnología fMRI. Los resultados demostraron que, antes de que nos demos cuenta o siquiera pensemos en lo que queremos hacer, nuestro cerebro comienza a discurrir. Las decisiones, por tanto, parecen llegar del inconsciente y no del consciente. Esta cuestión plantea la necesidad de revisar el concepto del libre albedrío. Por Yaiza Martínez.

---

To: neurociencias@...
From: afernandezlav@...
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 05:35:16 +0000
Subject: [neurociencias] Re: Donde esta el error?

Es la tercera vez que envío mi respuesta porque soy incapaz de
encontrar los dos anteriores que acabo de enviar...El error para mí
es que se habla de materia blanca. Los nucleos y zonas subcorticales
con de materia gris.

--- En neurociencias@gruposyahoo.com, "Franz Calvo" <franzcalvo@...>
escribió:
>
> Encontre un bochornoso error anatomico en el siguiente abstract
> PubMed. Pueden hallarlo?
>
> (envio este mensaje como un entretenimiento neuroanatomico)
>
>
> White matter alterations in schizophrenic patients with pronounced
> negative symptomatology and with positive family history for
> schizophrenia.
>
> Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2008 Apr 24
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18437282
>
> Zetzsche T, Preuss UW, Frodl T, Leinsinger G, Born C, Reiser M,
> Hegerl U, Möller HJ, Meisenzahl EM.
>
> Department of Psychiatry, Ludwig-Maximilians University,
Nussbaumstr.
> 7, 80336, Munich, Germany.
>
> BACKGROUND: In recent years, in vivo and post-mortem studies
detected
> structural brain changes in schizophrenia. The aim of our analysis
> was to investigate potential changes of white matter in
schizophrenic
> patients compared to controls, and the relationship to clinical
> characteristics.
>
> METHODS: Fifty male, right-handed schizophrenic patients who met
DSM-
> IV criteria for schizophrenia were recruited. Fifty right-handed,
age-
> and sex-matched subjects without a psychiatric disorder were
> enrolled as controls. Volumes of white matter in several brain
> regions were measured by 1.5 T MRI using a volumetry and
segmentation
> software (BRAINS). Regions of interest including frontal,
temporal,
> parietal, occipital and subcortical areas were determined using
> Talairach spaces.
>
> RESULTS: No significant differences in white matter volumes of
total
> brain tissue and regions of interest were detected between
patients
> and controls. A significant reduction of white matter in parietal
> cortex of right hemisphere was found in a subgroup of patients
with
> pronounced negative symptoms. Furthermore, patients with first-
grade
> relatives suffering from schizophrenia showed a reduction of
> subcortical white matter in the right hemisphere.
>
> CONCLUSIONS: Our results indicate that subgroups of schizophrenic
> patients show alterations of white matter in distinct brain
regions,
> including the right parietal lobe.
>

Yo diría que lo que falla es que se estudie la materia blanca. Los
núcleos cerebrales son de materia gris. No sé si acierto o si hay
algo más. Me lo he mirado solo por encima.--- En
neurociencias@..., "Franz Calvo" <franzcalvo@...>
escribió:
>
> Encontre un bochornoso error anatomico en el siguiente abstract
> PubMed. Pueden hallarlo?
>
> (envio este mensaje como un entretenimiento neuroanatomico)
>
>
> White matter alterations in schizophrenic patients with pronounced
> negative symptomatology and with positive family history for
> schizophrenia.
>
> Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2008 Apr 24
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18437282
>
> Zetzsche T, Preuss UW, Frodl T, Leinsinger G, Born C, Reiser M,
> Hegerl U, Möller HJ, Meisenzahl EM.
>
> Department of Psychiatry, Ludwig-Maximilians University,
Nussbaumstr.
> 7, 80336, Munich, Germany.
>
> BACKGROUND: In recent years, in vivo and post-mortem studies
detected
> structural brain changes in schizophrenia. The aim of our analysis
> was to investigate potential changes of white matter in
schizophrenic
> patients compared to controls, and the relationship to clinical
> characteristics.
>
> METHODS: Fifty male, right-handed schizophrenic patients who met
DSM-
> IV criteria for schizophrenia were recruited. Fifty right-handed,
age-
>  and sex-matched subjects without a psychiatric disorder were
> enrolled as controls. Volumes of white matter in several brain
> regions were measured by 1.5 T MRI using a volumetry and
segmentation
> software (BRAINS). Regions of interest including frontal,
temporal,
> parietal, occipital and subcortical areas were determined using
> Talairach spaces.
>
> RESULTS: No significant differences in white matter volumes of
total
> brain tissue and regions of interest were detected between
patients
> and controls. A significant reduction of white matter in parietal
> cortex of right hemisphere was found in a subgroup of patients
with
> pronounced negative symptoms. Furthermore, patients with first-
grade
> relatives suffering from schizophrenia showed a reduction of
> subcortical white matter in the right hemisphere.
>
> CONCLUSIONS: Our results indicate that subgroups of schizophrenic
> patients show alterations of white matter in distinct brain
regions,
> including the right parietal lobe.
>

Es la tercera vez que envío mi respuesta porque soy incapaz de
encontrar los dos anteriores que acabo de enviar...El error para mí
es que se habla de materia blanca. Los nucleos y zonas subcorticales
con de materia gris.

--- En neurociencias@..., "Franz Calvo" <franzcalvo@...>
escribió:
>
> Encontre un bochornoso error anatomico en el siguiente abstract
> PubMed. Pueden hallarlo?
>
> (envio este mensaje como un entretenimiento neuroanatomico)
>
>
> White matter alterations in schizophrenic patients with pronounced
> negative symptomatology and with positive family history for
> schizophrenia.
>
> Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2008 Apr 24
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18437282
>
> Zetzsche T, Preuss UW, Frodl T, Leinsinger G, Born C, Reiser M,
> Hegerl U, Möller HJ, Meisenzahl EM.
>
> Department of Psychiatry, Ludwig-Maximilians University,
Nussbaumstr.
> 7, 80336, Munich, Germany.
>
> BACKGROUND: In recent years, in vivo and post-mortem studies
detected
> structural brain changes in schizophrenia. The aim of our analysis
> was to investigate potential changes of white matter in
schizophrenic
> patients compared to controls, and the relationship to clinical
> characteristics.
>
> METHODS: Fifty male, right-handed schizophrenic patients who met
DSM-
> IV criteria for schizophrenia were recruited. Fifty right-handed,
age-
>  and sex-matched subjects without a psychiatric disorder were
> enrolled as controls. Volumes of white matter in several brain
> regions were measured by 1.5 T MRI using a volumetry and
segmentation
> software (BRAINS). Regions of interest including frontal,
temporal,
> parietal, occipital and subcortical areas were determined using
> Talairach spaces.
>
> RESULTS: No significant differences in white matter volumes of
total
> brain tissue and regions of interest were detected between
patients
> and controls. A significant reduction of white matter in parietal
> cortex of right hemisphere was found in a subgroup of patients
with
> pronounced negative symptoms. Furthermore, patients with first-
grade
> relatives suffering from schizophrenia showed a reduction of
> subcortical white matter in the right hemisphere.
>
> CONCLUSIONS: Our results indicate that subgroups of schizophrenic
> patients show alterations of white matter in distinct brain
regions,
> including the right parietal lobe.
>

Agradecere me ayuden a aclarar la siguiente duda:

Existen "Fibras no mielinadas" en el CNS?

Yo entiendo que no.

Una "Fibra nerviosa" es un Axon (o Axones) rodeado por una envoltura
procedente de Celulas Schwann u Oligodendrocitos.

En el SNP si existen "Fibras no mielinadas": aquellos Axones rodeados
por una Celula Schwann, pero sin envoltura de Mielina, .

Pero ... "Fibras no mielinadas" en el CNS?

Solo he podido hallar 2 referencias del uso de tal termino: una de
autores rusos y la otra de chinos.
Olvidaron estos revisar la precision de sus terminos?
Pudieron haber usado "Axones no mielinados", lo cual si seria un
termino correcto.

Cordialmente,

Franz


------------------------------------------------------------------
Unbiased stereological quantification of unmyelinated fibers in the
rat brain white matter.
Neurosci Lett. 2008 Mar 30
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.neulet.2008.03.080
Li C, Yang S, Zhang W, Shi X, Wang W, Nyengaard JR, Tang Y.

Department of Neurology, First Affiliated Hospital, Chongqing Medical
University, Chongqing, PR China; Institute for Basic Medical
Sciences, Chongqing Medical University, Chongqing, PR China;
Department of Histology and Embryology, Chongqing Medical University,
Chongqing, PR China.

We applied unbiased stereological principles to estimate the volume
of white matter and the total volume and length of the unmyelinated
fibers in the white matter of the rat brain. The mean volume of the
rat brain white matter was 119mm(3). The mean total length and the
mean total volume of the unmyelinated fibers in the white matter were
323km and 35mm(3), respectively. The described method provides a
useful tool for future quantitative studies of changes in the
unmyelinated fibers of white matter in various experimental
conditions and in various neurodegenerative diseases.




Changes at the focus of experimental ischemic stroke treated with
neuroprotective agents.
Neurosci Behav Physiol. 2008 Jan;38(1):49-54.
Onishchenko LS, Gaikova ON, Yanishevskii SN.

Department of Nervous Diseases, S. M. Kirov Military Medical Academy,
St. Petersburg.

The aim of the present work was to compare the morphological changes
occurring at the focus of experimental ischemic stroke treated with
agents of the neurotrophic group (alpha-GPC, cerebrolysin), an agent
with nootropic properties (piracetam), and a mixed-action agent
(vinpocetine). Experiments were performed on 18 rats. Transient
cerebral circulatory lesions (acute ischemia) were produced in the
right hemisphere by clipping the stem of the innominate artery for 40
min. Light microscopic and electron microscopic studies were
performed on fragments of cerebral cortex, brainstem, and cerebellum.
Use of alpha-GPC and cerebrolysin increased the tolerance of neurons
to ischemic damage and slowed the execution of the cell death
program. Intracellular changes were seen and were interpreted as
adaptive and reparative: these included folding of the nuclear
membrane, abundance of polyribosomes, and endoplasmic reticulum and
Golgi complex hypertrophy. These agents preserved the structures of
the nuclear membranes and major cellular organelles. When piracetam
and vinpocetine were used, all morphological measures indicated
inadequate energy provision for repair processes in the acute stage
of ischemic stroke. Morphological signs of functional tension of
cerebral cortex neurons were seen, with gliocytes in different stages
of apoptosis, along with the phenomenon of incomplete separation of
gliocytes during proliferation, pathological changes to myelin and
non-myelinated fibers, and abnormalities in synapse structure.

Encontre un bochornoso error anatomico en el siguiente abstract
PubMed. Pueden hallarlo?

(envio este mensaje como un entretenimiento neuroanatomico)


White matter alterations in schizophrenic patients with pronounced
negative symptomatology and with positive family history for
schizophrenia.

Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2008 Apr 24

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18437282

Zetzsche T, Preuss UW, Frodl T, Leinsinger G, Born C, Reiser M,
Hegerl U, Möller HJ, Meisenzahl EM.

Department of Psychiatry, Ludwig-Maximilians University, Nussbaumstr.
7, 80336, Munich, Germany.

BACKGROUND: In recent years, in vivo and post-mortem studies detected
structural brain changes in schizophrenia. The aim of our analysis
was to investigate potential changes of white matter in schizophrenic
patients compared to controls, and the relationship to clinical
characteristics.

METHODS: Fifty male, right-handed schizophrenic patients who met DSM-
IV criteria for schizophrenia were recruited. Fifty right-handed, age-
  and sex-matched subjects without a psychiatric disorder were
enrolled as controls. Volumes of white matter in several brain
regions were measured by 1.5 T MRI using a volumetry and segmentation
software (BRAINS). Regions of interest including frontal, temporal,
parietal, occipital and subcortical areas were determined using
Talairach spaces.

RESULTS: No significant differences in white matter volumes of total
brain tissue and regions of interest were detected between patients
and controls. A significant reduction of white matter in parietal
cortex of right hemisphere was found in a subgroup of patients with
pronounced negative symptoms. Furthermore, patients with first-grade
relatives suffering from schizophrenia showed a reduction of
subcortical white matter in the right hemisphere.

CONCLUSIONS: Our results indicate that subgroups of schizophrenic
patients show alterations of white matter in distinct brain regions,
including the right parietal lobe.

Revista Científica

CIMEL

Ciencia e Investigación Médica Estudiantil  Latinoamericana

 

Órgano Oficial de Difusión Científica de la Federación Latinoamericana de Sociedades Científicas de Estudiantes de Medicina FELSOCEM

 

 

Saludos fraternos amigos de Latinoamérica,

 

Se comunica a todas aquellas personas que deseen publicar sus trabajos de investigación o casos clínicos, en nuestra próxima edición de CIMEL:  Vol 13 Nº1 Año 2008, que la recepción de los mismos se hará hasta el 30 de marzo próximo como fecha límite.

 

Dichos trabajos de investigación o casos clínicos deben ser enviados a los correos de recepción CIMEL: recepcion_cimel@ yahoo.es  o recepcioncimel@ yahoo.es. Siempre teniendo en cuenta las Instrucciones para los Autores CIMEL 2007, que se adjuntan en el presente e-mail.

 

Esta es una excelente oportunidad para que den a conocer sus investigaciones y reportes de caso a la comunidad científica, ya que CIMEL está indizada en SciELO, Redalyc, IMBIOMED, LATINDEX, LIPECS, DOAJ y SISBIB-UNMSM.

 

Atentamente,

 

_________________________________

Univ. Yanet Arce Villavicencio

Editora en Jefe de CIMEL
FELSOCEM

Celular: 511-1-92836214

e-mail: editorcimel. felsocem@ hotmail.com

yanet_arce@yahoo. es

.

http://www.app.org.pe/

Ocultan la falta de efectividad de los antidepresivos

Hola neurociencias ,

Has recibido una postal de Sergio Zegarra Pezo y Familia <sergio493@...>
!

Para ver tu postal por favor clickea este link :
http://postales.sonico.com/view.php?cid=818193&se=sergio493@hotmail.com&db=4&t=e\
cards_sonico&ss=1


Muchas Gracias,
http://Postales.Sonico.com


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Saludos amigos de latinoamerica:

En esta oportunidad les hago llegar el contenido del último número de la revista CIMEL  (Publicación oficial de la Federación Latinoamericana de Sociedades Científicas de Estudiantes de Medicina – FELSOCEM), además los invito a revisar los artículos de este y anteriores números en:

 CIMEL se encuentra Indizada en:

Atentamente,

Univ. Caleb Llacctarimay Sánchez

Director de Promoción y Difusión
CIMEL - FELSOCEM

Celular: 511-95340214

e-mail: pyd_cimel@...

           callasa1485@...

---

To: robert.rl@...
CC: neurociencias@...
From: adavila@...
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 16:22:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [neurociencias] SOBRE CONDUCCION NERVIOSA EN RATAS Y RATONES

Hola Robert,

En qué lugar del mundo te encuentras?

Alex.

__________________________________________________________
Si desea recibir, semanalmente, el Boletín Electrónico de la PUCP, ingrese a:
http://agora.pucp.edu.pe/InsBoletin

Hasta hace 3 dias se consideraba que los casos mas antiguos de
tuberculosis eran los de MOMIAS PERUANAS y egipcias.

Acaban de descubrir Leptomeningitis tuberculosa en un Homo erectus,
una especie ya extinguida.

Abajo hay 2 referencias originales.

Saludos,

Franz

=============================================================

First Homo erectus from Turkey and implications for migrations into
temperate Eurasia
7 Dec 2007 Early View  (Article online in advance of print)
John Kappelman et al.
Department of Anthropology, The University of Texas, Austin, TX
Zentrum Anatomie der Georg-August-Universität, Göttingen, Germany
6Laboratoire de Paléontologie du Muséum National d'Histoire
Naturelle, Paris, France
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/117859722/ABSTRACT

===============================================================

Most Ancient Case of Tuberculosis Found In 500,000-Year-Old Human;
Evidence Suggests Vitamin D Deficiency Endangers Migrating Populations
John Kappelman
December 7, 2007
http://www.utexas.edu/news/2007/12/07/anthropology-3

=============================================================

Luego de hacer inhalar un corticoide a mi hija, para su asma,
encontre en el periodico local que 11 empleados de una planta
procesadora de cerdos estan sufriendo un desorden neurologico debido
a que inhalaron ... una niebla que contenia cerebro porcino.

Apuesto que pronto los journals medicos estaran reportando este
problema.

Por si acaso, el nombre del sindrome es:
Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuropathy (CIDP)

Saludos,

Franz

================================================================
Minn. Slaughterhouse Workers Fall Ill
December 7, 2007
By MARTIGA LOHN
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hqaebpM28dOdHO2Fop0x-
o06mxqQD8TCRVQG0

ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) — On the slaughterhouse floor at Quality Pork
Processors Inc. is an area known as the "head table," but not because
it is the place of honor. It is where workers cut up pigs' heads and
then shoot compressed air into the skulls until the brains come
spilling out.

But now the grisly practice has come under suspicion from health
authorities.

Over eight months from last December through July, 11 workers at the
plant in Austin, Minn. — all of them employed at the head table —
developed numbness, tingling or other neurological symptoms, and some
scientists suspect inhaled airborne brain matter may have somehow
triggered the illnesses.

The use of compressed air to remove pig brains was suspended at
Quality Pork earlier this week while authorities try to get to the
bottom of the mystery.

"I'm still in shock, I guess," said 37-year-old Susan Kruse, who
worked at the plant for 15 years until she got too weak to do her job
last February. "But it was very surprising to hear that there was
that many other people that have gotten this."

Five of the workers — including Kruse, who has been told she may
never work again — have been diagnosed with chronic inflammatory
demyelinating polyneuropathy, or CIDP, a rare immune disorder that
attacks the nerves and produces tingling, numbness and weakness in
the arms and legs, sometimes causing lasting damage.

New cases of CIDP occur at the rate of one or two per 100,000 people
each year, according to Dr. P. James B. Dyck of the Mayo Clinic.

State health officials said there is no evidence the public is at
risk — either from those afflicted or from any food leaving the
plant, which supplies Hormel Foods Inc.

The working theory from two Mayo Clinic neurologists treating the
workers: Exposure to pig brain tissue scattered by the compressed air
triggered the illnesses.

"As we've investigated these patients, we have information that
suggests very strongly that the immune system is activated very
strongly in a very compelling way," said Dr. Daniel Lachance.

Compressed air could turn some brain matter into a mist that could be
inhaled by workers, said Mike Doyle, a microbiologist who heads the
University of Georgia's Center for Food Safety. Or the workers may
have come into contact with something dangerous and then touched
their noses or mouths, he said.

Scientists have yet to figure out if there is something in the brain
matter that could be causing the symptoms.

"The hard part will be identifying the causative agent and
associating that with the animal, showing that the animal carries
it," Doyle said.

Minnesota Health Department spokesman Doug Schultz said the agency is
looking into the theory but has not ruled out other causes. Kruse
said the company has harvested pork brains on and off for years,
depending on demand, but it's not known why workers began getting
sick recently.

Quality Pork has not said what it does with the pork brains. Sold
fresh and in cans, pork brains are fried and eaten in sandwiches or
gravy in some parts of the country. But it is a small market, and the
American Meat Institute, which represents most of the nation's pork
processors, does not even track sales.

Exactly how many of the plant's 1,300 employees worked at the head
table is unclear; Quality Pork's chief executive did not return
calls. Kruse said there were 11 workers at the head table on any
given shift, but the lineup changed because of turnover or because
people were assigned other jobs.

In a rapid-fire process that is noisy, smelly and bloody, severed
pigs' heads are cut up at the head table at a rate of more than 1,100
an hour. Workers slice off the cheek and snout meat, then insert a
nozzle in the head and blast air inside until the light pink mush
that is the brain tissue squirts out from the base of the skull.

Kruse, whose job was to remove meat from the back of the animals'
heads, said she doesn't recall any spray or mist from the de-
braining. The head-table workers were protected by safety glasses,
helmets, gloves and belly guards, but none wore anything over their
mouths or noses, she said.

Head-table workers are now required to wear plastic face shields and
protective plastic or rubber sleeves, the Health Department said.

The use of compressed air to remove hog brains is relatively
uncommon, according to industry officials. That's because many plants
don't even remove them. And some of the processors that do extract
brains simply split the hogs' skulls open.

Some of the biggest pork processors — Tyson Foods Inc., JBS Swift &
Co. and Cargill Inc. — said they don't handle brains because the
market isn't big enough. No pork workers at Tyson, Cargill or JBS
Swift have reported symptoms similar to those of the Quality Pork
employees, the companies said.

CIDP attacks the lining around the nerves, slowing or blocking the
brain's signals to the muscles. But exactly what triggers the attack
is unknown.

Victims can recover fairly quickly if the illness is caught early,
said Dr. Kenneth Gorson, a neurologist at St. Elizabeth's Medical
Center in Boston.

In advanced cases, treatment arrests the disease but doesn't reverse
its effects, he said. Treatment involves infusions of immune globulin
or a plasma-exchange technique that removes antibodies from the
patient's blood. Another option is a steroid called prednisone.

American Meat Institute spokeswoman Janet Riley said: "We are
watching the situation very closely and we've offered any help that
the state health department would need. But certainly if facts came
to light that justified the change in practices, you could imagine
protecting the workers is critical."

Workers are worried, said Richard Morgan, who heads the union local
at Quality Pork.

"The process has stopped, where they assume it was at," he said. "It
could have been from something different. Nobody knows at this time.
We can talk about gray matter till we're blue in the face."

===================================================


NINDS tiene una buena descripcion del CIDP:

Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuropathy (CIDP)
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/cidp/cidp.htm

Hola Robert,

En qué lugar del mundo te encuentras?

Alex.


 ___________________________________________________________________
Si desea recibir, semanalmente, el Boletín Electrónico de la PUCP, ingrese a:
http://agora.pucp.edu.pe/InsBoletin

HOLA, SOY UN JOVEN NEUROCIENTIFICO QUE ESTA HACIENDO INVESTIGACIONES EN
UN MODELO ANIMAL MURINO TRANSGENICO DE ATAXIA. PRETENDO COMENZAR A
REALIZAR ESTUDIOS DE CONDUCCION NERVIOSA PERIFERICA EN ESTE.

ME PUEDEN INDICAR BREVEMENTE ALGUNOS LABS DONDE LO HAGAN, Y SI CONOCEN
LAS ESPECIFICIDADES TECNICAS DEL EQUIPO, AMPLIFICADORES, SENSIBILIDAD,
GANANCIA, ETC..

ME SERIA DE MUCHO BIEN SU AYUDA.
GRACIAS

Si tienen referencias, ayuden. La pena por un aimalito
perdido es grande y ellos, a diferencia de nosotros,
no pueden comunicarla.


      
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